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Post by quack on Jul 12, 2012 21:34:15 GMT 12
I interested to know your views on claim jumpers and what can/should be done about them? We have signs on the road to our claim,would that make you do the rite thing? I understand there is no on er among thieves but am keen to know if that's the same for us lot?  Quack |
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Post by lbd on Jul 12, 2012 23:01:27 GMT 12
Would depend on the circumstances...If there was some one out for a social day with a pan I would ignore it
If someone was there with a manual sluice box I would discuss what their intentions were, ie a social adventure day, I would ignore it, any thing more serious I would point out that they are on a claim.
Anything thing motorized, I think it is to be expected that a person with a motorized dredge will know all about PAMs and claim maps, so they would be aware they are on an-others claim, I would approach them for a discussion on the first occasion....possibly collect photos.
A second event would involve police notification and if a consent is in place the council notification....after all, they could breach the conditions of the consent and unless you can prove otherwise, you may be liable.
There endith my first post on this forum...
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Post by nuggethead on Jul 13, 2012 1:42:35 GMT 12
Ibd, you should contribute more often in my opinion, your advice is sound and good. This is a very good question raised here, I have often thought about the same myself, as I am a little "hot headed" sometimes I would be doing my best to follow Ibd's advice, but I couldn't promise anything... most likely I would end up being "liable"  NH |
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Post by lloyd2234 on Jul 13, 2012 10:38:35 GMT 12
Agreed, I wish more people where sensible about things. I jumped on a alluvial gold forum here in Oz last week. I wanted to know why, "in there code of conduct" no'one is to talk of dredging. I couldn't believe the response i got. I think only 2 responses where from people who where generally interested and where sensible about the concerns they had. The other dozen or so responses where straight out offensive. The thread lasted maybe 6 hours and was deleted. I then started a thread titled "where are we living, China" Thats when they really got abusive. Now, i would have thought that abusive behaviour, attacking another member would have been not tolerated more than discussing something thats illegal. Nope, that thread stayed. No wonder we have problems here in OZ.
I think that my mistake in the first thread might have been to suggest that in the past we might have made the mistake of seeing greenies as our enemies, instead of taking on board what they have to say.
The way these guys reacted to me suggesting that, was just a straight out attack. If i was a greenie "and there are way more of them than us" And these guys reacted to what i had to say with an attack like that. Then for sure i'd retaliate.
Anyway, from what i saw on that forum, there is no chance of anything good comming of it, especially when the forum is hyjacked by a dictator.
Its a breath of fresh air comming on this site sometimes. Common sense seems to be still alive in NZ
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Post by lloyd2234 on Jul 13, 2012 11:22:42 GMT 12
What IBD said is exactly how we should be treating others. Afterall, we are all doing the same thing, just with different tools. That was kinda the same thing i was trying to express about greenies. They have the same concerns as we do. They are concerned about the environment. I also pointed out that one of my good mates is a member of the greens here in OZ, he isn't against dredging at all, and he has the same trouble as everyone else with the over unthusiastic greenies.
Here in Oz it seems that the first people that need convincing is the very people that do the same thing as we do. And i very quickly learned that there is no chance of that.
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Post by quack on Jul 13, 2012 15:03:15 GMT 12
OK just keep this on track.
Thank you lbd and nuggethead.
lloyd2234 I think you need to start a new topic just so we don't muddie the waters.
I/we are of the same mind I'm not concerned with the day trippers it more the dredgers.
I think on the first time I would ask them to move on or if they/he seemed a good sort I may let them stay but ask for a percentage of there clean up.
The second time I wouldn't be so happy.
Q Do you have the rite to take the gold they/he has found/taken?
Q Shouldn't we all have some sort of code amongst ourselves?
quack.
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Post by aucn on Jul 13, 2012 15:13:14 GMT 12
As a claim holder you have the right to mine the gold .. anyone else is basically stealing and can be taken to court and you can apply for compensation for loss of gold etc..etc.
i would go down lbd's track.
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Post by boaraxa on Jul 13, 2012 18:53:19 GMT 12
Interesting thread!
I think there is no straight forward answer really as it all depends on you the claim owner....
if someone was on my patch with a pan or sluice and thats all well i wouldnt loose the plot first time round if they seem,d decent about things they could probably even come back espcially if they let you no someone else has been creeping around the show wile your not there ....but then of course there are no shortage of rude poatching people with big mouths that no all about claims and still dont really care...so guess those types are a different matter as to how one would treat them ;D
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Post by lloyd2234 on Jul 13, 2012 21:41:22 GMT 12
yes, i know, straight after i posted that, i thought i'd gone off topic.
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Post by strider on Jul 13, 2012 22:47:19 GMT 12
Would depend on the circumstances...If there was some one out for a social day with a pan I would ignore it If someone was there with a manual sluice box I would discuss what their intentions were, ie a social adventure day, I would ignore it, any thing more serious I would point out that they are on a claim. Anything thing motorized, I think it is to be expected that a person with a motorized dredge will know all about PAMs and claim maps, so they would be aware they are on an-others claim, I would approach them for a discussion on the first occasion....possibly collect photos. A second event would involve police notification and if a consent is in place the council notification....after all, they could breach the conditions of the consent and unless you can prove otherwise, you may be liable. There endith my first post on this forum... I agree with MOST of LBD's comments. However I wouldn't be as lenient on finding someone on my claim (if I owned one) with motorized equipment. As stated, the culprit "will know all about PAMs and claim maps" and in essence would be stealing. Therefor it would be the same as finding someone carrying out a robbery at your home. I wouldn't give any warning, and after a very one-sided discussion, I would be doing everything in my power to have them prosecuted. At the other end of the spectrum, finding someone there with there kids and a pan is all about the kiwi culture and would highly encourage it. Strider |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 0:01:48 GMT 12
I write this as the owner of a few permits and one who has had permits poached with our dredge and the SOB stealing the dredge as well. Some of these areas have been worked by locals for years and sometimes generations and the fact that some city boy paid the government a rediculous amount of money to have it all to himself makes bugger all difference to them. It helps if you are asked but my attitude to those I know are they can prospect for you, most of us have areas we cannot work in several lifetimes and the poachers can narrow it down for you. My attitude is you can work it, over a certain amount you pay me a kick and you cant work any area more than 2 days. I know this wont go down well with some. There is also the option of renting time on a permit.
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Post by lloyd2234 on Jul 14, 2012 0:19:13 GMT 12
Homesouth, can you elaberate a bit more. I'm pretty sure i know what your talking about, just needs writing a bit clearer. interesting take on the subject if your saying what i think you are.
In my off topic blurb i put in this thread earlier, "in my own weard way" i was kinda trying to compliment you guys over there on your openness to discuss things.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 0:46:43 GMT 12
Hi Lloyd, I was being a little obtuse on purpose. This game attracts all sorts of people, entrepreneurs, wide boys, dreamers, get rich quick merchants and miners. If you have someone there then there are no poachers, you still want to control as much as you are able who is there. NZ is pretty small and you hear on the grapevine who has been where. I have been doing this for over 30 years, 25 of them "poaching" in that when the price was low no one was interested in putting in permits so you were working unpermitted ground or ones owned by the multinationals who shouldnt have running water in their permits anyway. We as a group have bigger enemies, we dont want here all the BS that other countries are experiencing.
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Post by quack on Jul 14, 2012 11:02:39 GMT 12
OK Homesouth are you saying if someone that's not a city boy but is a country boy and he or his family have been rustling for generations, then your OK with that! as long as they repear the fences and buy you a beer.
The rules of should be.
1 Find the owner.
2 Ask permission.
3 Try to work out a far deal.
4 Abide by the rules set out.
5 If they say no that's an end to it, don't burn any bridges so you talk again.
The sooner we all do the rite thing with each other the sooner we can sit down and talk with one voice.
I for one have had it to the back teeth with the WE WERE HERE FIRST mentality in this country.
A thief is a thief no matter what spin is put on it.
If a framer has let your family hunt or cross his land that,s good if he sells, you have to deal with the new owner an he may say no.
quack.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 11:17:59 GMT 12
Quack, I blame the cost of permits and consents, if the price wasnt so high people wouldnt be pegging out 20 miles of river and trying to work it with a suitcase dredge or for some none at all. Then spend all their time and energy keeping others out. I also dont see the point of going through the exercise of getting consents and permits to work it one or two weeks during their holidays. A lot dont have a clue of the work and skills required to make a permit into a proffessional full time exercise, there is a big difference from sitting surfing the net dreaming and doing the hard yards of full time dredging. Its not a case of we were here first what Im saying is consider the locals, they are a valuable source of information and also a watchdog.
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