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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:35:09 GMT 12
From: RKCNZ Sent: 21/08/2008 1:27 p.m. G’day, When the Brown Bros pump was earlier discussed on this forum I went into my local pump supplier here on The Coast to enquire about these pumps and when I described the pump and mentioned it was a pump previously used on gold dredges the salesman knew right away what pump I was referring to. And from what he told me I got the impression he had not seen the pumps for some years and he was unsure if they were still being sold by Brown Bros. I then did a search on the Brown Bros web site and could not find the pump … so, if I remember correctly, I concluded they were no longer being sold. These pumps have certainly been sold in the past as a stand alone pump that could be bought as a single item. I remember going into a South Island pump supplier in the late 90s and seeing a new one on display in the shop. And as far as I’m aware Brown Bros were the manufacturer. There should be a lot of these pumps still around (gathering dust in gold fossickers garden sheds) as they were the pump sold with the Suitcase Dredge img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Coochee/7c034b8f.jpg?t=1219271819 img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Coochee/Hobby%20dredges/4d29d932.jpg?t=1219271483 If the Honda motor in the TradeMe add is OK and not had too much use, and if the price is right, then it could be a good buy. I’m tempted myself. These Brown Bros pumps were well made and very solid, so they are a handy small pump to have for any number of gold mining related purposes (such as powering a sluice used to get the fines from dredge concentrates tinyurl.com/62mop7 ). Seals could be an issue and before anyone buys the pump they should first find out if replacement seals are still available. Does anyone know if the standard Honda shaft couples to this pump? Like this shaft images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/83/72136583_full.jpg I wonder if this pump was exclusively manufactured in New Zealand. If so it might have only been discontinued as a product because it could not compete with Chinese made pumps. I'll look back through the previous posts and see what was previously said about the pumps. (Not having a search function on this forum is a major pain) Regards, Rob (RKC)
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:36:15 GMT 12
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:41:52 GMT 12
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:44:28 GMT 12
From: dr_edger Sent: 26/08/2008 5:25 p.m. A bit of a mystery as this pump was reputed to be a Brown Bros pump, it may not be so. Anyboby reconise it? specs. 2.5ins inlet x 2ins outlet, looks are deceiving as the outside castings are bit rough but a good performer on the 6.5HP, one of my favourites. The outlet was swivelled round to vertical for a reason, so ignore this. The BB type of pump in Alluvial’s picture was available and tried out by a full time operator that I know and it quickly ended up on the scrap heap, totally unsuitable, no way could it compete against a decent pump, especially if your income depends on it. dr. img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Coochee/Gold%20Dredging%20Forum/PUMP.jpg?t=1226626975
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:46:22 GMT 12
From: RKCNZ Sent: 26/08/2008 5:55 p.m. G'day, I’ve now learnt that the blue coloured pump groups.msn.com/golddredgingforum/brownbrospump.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=52 we have been referring to as the Brown Bros pump has never been sold by Brown Bros (New Zealand). I emailed Brown Bros today and they informed me it was not one of their pumps. I’d very much like to find the source of these pumps … I might try my local pump supplier and show them a photo of the blue coloured pump and see what they say when I tell them it must be a pump supplier other then Brown Bros. Thanks for posting the pump photos Alluvial0 (alluvial0). The pump with Brown Bros written on the side of the pump does look a little familiar (not an eductor dredge pump however) ... no question about 'it' being made by Brown Bros! The photos of the Treasure Emporium pump was most interesting to see. A few days ago I did an Internet search to find some pictures of the old Treasure Emporium dredges but only came up with a few written references to these dredges on one of the recreational Internet forums ... and no pictures. The only time I've seen any Treasure Emporium dredges was in Australia during the 80s when one was used in Victoria (if I remember correctly it was on Big River) and there was an 8" Treasure Emporium dredge on display in Miners Den in Melbourne for quiet some time in the 80s … sitting unsold for a long, long time. And if I remember correctly, the 8" was finally sold to a guy who took it to Nth Queensland to use in the Mitchell River. I remember Lubo ... or maybe it was one of the other guys who was up there then, who told me the 8" Treasure Emporium dredge was being used in the Mitchell. The Treasure Emporium dredges probably worked well enough, but what would have been immediately apparent to any experienced miners about these dredges was that they had numerous gimmicky additions that were of no practical use. My guess would be that all those gimmicky additions were probably added just as "selling points". Americans love gimmicks and as many additions as possible (probably fools them into thinking they are getting more for their cash than they actually are), and additions can sell (to novices) what is often only a very ordinary dredge. You just have to look at some of the trommel plants that Americans run in places like Alaska, which have bits and pieces of equipment hanging off them at all angles. The Kiwi manufactured trommel plants in comparison are simple at first glance ( img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/NZGOLD/Excavators%20and%20trommels/P1010036.jpg?t=1219721407 ), but are actually much more efficient and practical in the real world than the trommel plants the Americans copied from New Zealanders and "improved". Kiwis have always been well aware of the value of the KISS principal and are never fooled by useless gimmicks. I vaguely recall that the Treasure Emporium 5” triples had small bags hanging from the end of each side sluice box (or maybe it was the middle box) … don’t know what that nonsense was all about! And each side box was flared (the flared boxes are an excellent example of what I referred to above as a useless gimmick). Their pumps could have been OK however and the one in your picture looks like they have the design right (probably a straight copy of the Keene pumps of the time). And from what I can see inside, there are no big gaps and the vanes are large. What’s your opinion of them? They can’t however be an option for today’s dredgers as there would have been only a few that came to Australia (Miners Den were Treasure Emporium agents for a while). And as they are no longer made, the only ones still around are now quiet old and would probably not turn up on Ebay or TradeMe. After writting the above I vaguley recall being told by a Kiwi dredger in the 90s that he, or was it a friend of his, brought a second hand Treasure Emporium dredge into New Zealand from Australia ... I think it was a 5". Regards, Rob (RKC)
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:47:02 GMT 12
From: RKCNZ Sent: 26/08/2008 6:03 p.m.
G'day dr_edger We must have clicked the send button at the same time. My excuse for being in front of a computer in the middle of the day is the miserable weather we have been experincing here on The Coast that has made any visits into the back country dangerous. Spring can't be too far away. Regards, Rob (RKC)
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:49:08 GMT 12
From: ELW0 Sent: 26/08/2008 6:36 p.m.
Hi Rob,
Further to the saga of Brown Bros pumps. Browns produced a pump in the 1960's that was painted orange and called an Aqua Light Pump. These pumps had an Aluminum housing and an open cast iron impeller. They were used on 4" and 5" underwater dredges with a 4 or 5HP motor.
The blue pump that was for sale on Trade Me is a Treasure Emporium pump, made under license in CHCH by Arnold & Divers Ltd, and marketed by Swim Joy Products. These pumps have not been made for years, but I would think that Arnold & Divers would still have the patterns. There is still one employee there that knows about these pumps.
Hope this clears up some misconceptions.
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:50:10 GMT 12
From: RKCNZ Sent: 26/08/2008 7:19 p.m.
G'day ELW0, Thanks for that. Very helpful info ... and you have saved me quiet a bit of time chasing around trying to find a pump thats no longer made. Might be worthwhile for someone to start making them again. A small pump that is high pressure with high volume, that can be easily coupled to a 5 hp motor, is of use to fossickers not only using dredges but any other equipment that requires a pump. I'll keep an eye on Trademe as a single pump (the blue pump) might even come up for sale one day. Regards, Rob (RKC)
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:51:07 GMT 12
From: VJG73 Sent: 26/08/2008 10:04 p.m.
Hello Last time I was in Arnold and Diver the guy had a scrounge around in a couple of old box's and come up with some old pump casings and bits in pieces which may be a start. I have a couple of Keene P180's and some contacts in the machining / foundry business. I was toying with the idea of casting up a similar styled pump with a BSP thread rather than a NSP. Also maybe open up the impeller Diameter to handle 6.5hp. The hardest casting will be the impeller but the Seal and outer casing wont be a problem. Off the subject a bit the Engineering company has a large box of bronze injector nozzles which they use to supply to the dredgers back in the 80's. They were made in all different sizes from about 1/2 inch to 3/4. If there was enough interest in making a pump around this size i could give it a crack. The money is in making up the 3 Dies required. LM6 Aluminum would be fine and i could machine the impeller to a more common shaft size rather than 16mm. Should be able to knock them out at well under the $500 mark. Cheers
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:55:26 GMT 12
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:57:45 GMT 12
ownerdr_edger Sent: 27/08/2008 2:42 a.m.
Hi, thanks for all the pictures.
Alluvial, I hope I have not misled you or anybody else on the Brown Bros pump; it would be at least 25 years ago that I last saw one being used like the one in your picture, it did have the name on the side but whether it was the open impeller or the better closed impellor I can’t say. The way we learnt back then was by trial and error and direct side by side comparison (no internet back then to get information) anyway side by side the BB pump just could not match any of the other pumps of similar size at the time much to the owner’s disappointment. That’s not to say that yours won’t do the job that you intend it to do as your pump has been obviously modified. One thing that could be a major disadvantaged and loss of performance is the excessive clearance on the inlet/impellor, keep this as close to zero as possible to stop recirculation inside the pump. No harm in trying.
Talking of learning one of my earlier dredges had the outlet facing to the side simular to alluvials and guess what? The pressure hose came off at full bore and flipped the dredge upside down, drowned the motor and lost three hours of work in concentrates from the ‘box. Triple hose clamps were the norm after that until a source of heavy duty clamps was found, the other mod was to move the pontoons further apart and drop the sluice down between two pontoons right to water level, much better stability and a big increase in suction due to not having to push the gravel up so far above water level,( a rock is 1SG heaver out of water than in, example; a rock of 3sg weighing 10lbs out of water is only 7lbs under water) that’s all for now folks.
dr.
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:58:30 GMT 12
From: alluvial0 Sent: 27/08/2008 10:22 a.m.
Hi there Dr edger,
Thanks for the info. Yes I am aware of keeping the box low to the water. "Keep it low & increase your flow" I have just got myself a mig welder to do a few changes to the frame work to do just what you said. I guess I wont know about the BB pump until I try it. I bought it off trademe as you see it & know nothing about them eg as to the impeller being reversed or clearances etc. It looks to be brass though & not even sure if that is original. Cheers Alluvial
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:58:58 GMT 12
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 13:59:26 GMT 12
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Post by RKC on Nov 14, 2008 14:06:12 GMT 12
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